All posts tagged debate

Hey It’s been, I don’t know, a week or two since I last posted? Want to look at that post that includes petitions regarding Children’s Healthcare click here BURN IT DOWN! An All Out Assault Against Society Weakening Ideology. Before I get into today’s topic I’m going to need you to do something. I need you to believe in something that more and more these days seems IMPOSSIBLE. Can you do that? 😀 Good. You ever have those moments when you feel the need to ask yourself what would John Quinones do? For those who don’t know who this is, he is a journalist who did a show called “What Would You Do?” It was the perfect mixture of prank show and genuine social experimentation. Actors were hired to go out in public and create scenes, depicting acts ranging from race bashing, to abuse scenarios. They even had someone go out twice both as how they really are and in a fat suit with kick ass make up to see how people reacted differently between the model and the fat person. I mean you name it they were running a scenario for it and sometimes doing the same one in different places. Noting from hidden cameras, both the people who ignored what was happening and those who stepped up to act against it. They would always interview the ones who reacted to find out why they did. As far as reality television goes, this to me was one that had real educational value to it.

Well I think we have seen just about every real world scenario there is to be seen, whatever “What Would You Do?” hasn’t covered Tom Green certainly did back in his early days and while that was comedy it did push the limits of seeing how everyday people react to just ridiculous circumstances. That said Debate is a Lost Art, and I know there are going to be people out there who will read that and scream Debate Teams, Election Debates, The one’s you have seen between scientists and Christians and the thing is all of these are essentially COMPETITIONS and the Winners are determined by others viewing it’s very STRUCTURED RULE SET. I’m talking REAL DEBATE what we want to call debate today when compared to it is like the difference between Kendo and Genuine Sword fighting. First off in REAL DEBATE it is NOT about winning. When both sides are RECEPTIVE ENOUGH it is about each expanding their ideology through the EXCHANGE OF IDEAS. There is such a resistance in this age to the notion of exchanging idea’s. It’s like everybody wants to believe THEY ARE RIGHT. Let’s look at some of the reasons. First: It’s a matter of having a fixed and set belief system, this is something people cling to even during the times it does not make sense or even apply to the situation. It’s just easier to stick to your guns than adopt an idea from another person….especially if you disagree with most everything they say. Second: FEAR of anything that goes against your grain. FEAR is one of those things that exists to trigger Survival mode in our minds to make it easier to overcome obstacles, but it can also be it’s own obstacle when left unchecked.When we fear the result of being “WRONG” we become resistant to ACCEPTING the idea’s of others. Third: I have basically already covered in saying that we have twisted the idea of what debate is into being a COMPETITION, when you think DEBATE you automatically go into defense/offense mode in the belief that it is something that you can or have to WIN. When we do this we forsake accepting the ideas of others in the belief that as opponents their ideas are something to be BEATEN, not adopted.

One more thing before I go into the particulars of my little social experiment. In light of it being the holiday season and a time of gifting I will leave a few links to where you can find the albums of the band whose music played a key role in it. As you will see I give them Hell, but everyone is has the right to FORM their opinion and honestly my Biggest reason lies in the fact that you can’t run a social experiment without openly stirring the shit pot to get the ball rolling on it. If my results are any indication of the type of people this bands music inspire, believe me when I tell you I would see it all go triple platinum.

It started with just the right search of words on Youtube about a week ago. I happened across the EP Fuck Your Emotional Bullshit by an emo band called Snowing.  2 minutes in and I’m shaking my head trying to discern the lyrics over the cacophony of sounds that just bombard you when you are listening to this. SO I Google the lyrics and what I found was some fairly smart points regarding the sort of things that both cause strong emotion, but also beat people down into a state of emotional numbness. Okay, so for me it was sort of like Nirvana. Some of their songs you could follow what was being said some of it I had to wonder if there was even real words in there when I listened, but if you look at the songs as they are written it is exactly what everyone says it is…Genius. So naturally this is what I commented. (Click Images to see in full size)


With the open challenge issued all I had to do was sit back and wait for the responses, if there would be any, to come in. The first did almost immediately and I was impressed by what was actually just a fan who stated his own opinion and that was it. No fight, nothing more than a trade of opinions. So I’m thinking, Alright there are people who get it. People who don’t take such things too personally. I’m cool with that.

The second response came the next day and truthfully it was of a type that I expected, because it is  a very common type of response when someone says something that someone else does not like.

The Third response came the day after. this was one that I had expected sooner in the chain, more like first or second, because it is becoming more and more common a response in this day and age. It is the response I call The Care Bear response and I know if you have read much of anything I have written in the last four years then you know my take on The Care Bear response. And not to my surprise this one actually became an exchange. Because I am a Debater and as such I push the envelop, this makes me like oil to this type of person’s water. They tend to be the ones I ultimately rub the wrong way the most. This is also one of the best type of responses to start switching gears on to show a different side to the argument that you present.

Things went eerily quiet after that for a few days and for a moment I allowed myself to think that my little experiment had run it’s course with little real success. I was wrong. The fourth response was exactly what I had been most expecting and I was glad that it was actually the fourth in line because I had already sewed the seeds for changing up the argument altogether. As you will find what came AFTER this response was EXACTLY the thing that had made this a success. What you see here is the ANGRY RESPONSE. You will note that mine comes back even more harsh. The reason for this was so that if he looked back over how I responded to the others he would see a distinct difference in my demeanor versus how I mirrored his own. Keep an eye on this guy because he will show up later as well.

Remember when I said that I have a way of rubbing those with The Care Bear response the wrong way? Well guess who popped back up. and with that a new exchange was begun until it was suddenly stopped cold……Not by me and not by the guy with The Care Bear response, but by the one who initially had The ANGRY RESPONSE. Check it out.

There, RIGHT THERE was the moment my whole reason for stirring the shit pot. Suffice to say from this point forward My responses to others took on a different tone altogether. It makes no sense to continue being the person who stirs the shit pot once you found someone with a sense of reason who is capable of listening and learning from what others have to say. Doing so would then become COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. So it was when the fifth type of response came around The Innocent of any real insult, but questioning of how someone can stir that shit pot so willingly I honestly found how the girl put it hilarious and so I decided to take the path of adding to the comic relief.

Last came the type of response that I actually had hoped for but had not expected at all. This one came out swinging with an actual argument against my original statement, and a fairly well thought out argument at that. It all comes down to what a person takes personal, and in my own response I point out a lighter side to taking criticism and an appreciation for the thought put into coming back at my arguments.

Now for the point where I ACCEPT a few things of my own. Admittedly it I still find this music a bit of an acquired taste, but if we are being honest there are MANY reasons to come to really like something. For me I have to say this music offered an experience for me that I was not expecting through just the pure diversity of the people and their mind sets who listen to it. They are cool people. And this band are some real bad asses for bringing that together, I haven’t yet listened to the rest of what they have done, but knowing myself…I have Taylor Swift songs that I like…….I can’t STAND Taylor Swift, no offense to her. LOL It is very unlikely that I will not find something of theirs that I listen to repeatedly. With that I became the 873rd person to like their video…You know, the one I bitched about.

….. Why did I do all of this? It’s simple. Get online, any social media outlet, watch the news…..All 15 versions of it, listen to the people around you. What have we heard lately? A mess of LABEL THROWING, Left wingers, Right wingers, We protest this, we’re boycotting you because you protested it. It seems like we are living in a society that is dead set on being divisive, with a lack of OPENNESS that can’t help but make you wonder if there is truly ANY HOPE of repairing the rift. and you can say, at least Americans can, that it’s our current President’s fault and while he has been a huge factor, we were getting that way for a long time already, even before he decided to run for office. Partisan politics, are only a symptom of the REAL PROBLEM. Hell I have a page on here thanking Eminem for his music and what it did to keep me motivated and moving forward, but I don’t really listen to that much now and the reason is because he recently chimed in with a freestyle rap against the president. I agree with most everything he said in that freestyle, I laughed about a lot of it and then he did one of the dumbest things. He laid out an ultimatum to the people who listened to his music……. You can’t side with one and the other, you can’t walk the fence. In that moment the DUMB SON OF A BITCH BECAME THE SAME PROBLEM AS THE OTHER GUY. He essentially fed into the DIVISION of our people and THAT I am SO NOT COOL WITH. If your idea of fixing the problem is just setting people up like chess pieces for a battle you refuse to find, Hell to even bother to LOOK for an alternative path to, it’s on you too. I did this because with as IRREPARABLY DIVIDED as people seem intent on staying in this day and age it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT to show, even in such a small form, that  as UGLY as OPEN DIALOGUE can be in it’s beginning stages, when people are OPEN ENOUGH the EXCHANGE of IDEAS is integral to our GROWTH, both as a person and as a people. Happy Holiday Season to All.





Right now I am weak. Powerless. You inflict suffering on me because you are strong enough to do so. Your actions prove the truth of what I believe.” – Darth Bane

The above line was from a passage in the Darth Bane trilogy of books. SPOILER ALERT. He gets out of the situation, but at a later time meets the woman who had him captive, the daughter of a healer that he had used once, seeking revenge for her fathers death at the hands of Bane’s apprentice Darth Zannah. He tells her in this meeting that he understood her reasons and that had it been his decision and not that of his apprentice he never would have murdered her father, because he had helped him at one point in time. He offers to let the woman go, at this point he is not drugged and helpless he is very much at his peak and armed at that. He offers to let let her walk if she accepts what he just told her and never again seek to come after him. She of course refuses and rather than have to deal with her later he cuts her down on the spot and walks away. Darth Sidious was a politician, Darth Bane was a warrior and his personal code made him a far more balanced, sensible, and honorable Sith than the emperor of later times who encouraged slaughter, slavery of alien races and cowardly tactics, as he killed his master not through conflict, but rather in his sleep.

Thus we come to the OPEN INVITATION. LIGHT against DARK . BALANCE is what a REAL SITH upholds. This does not mean that there are not people out there better at somethings than others and blah blah blah. People in my estimation have a bad habit of either focusing too much on their blessings or focusing too much on their problems. I use to work scanning medical records into an electronic system. All my co workers ever did was bitch. There were the preppers who made sure things were in proper order to be scanned, the scanners who scanned it in and the indexers who were kind of like quality control.  The preppers wanted to cry because they did not make what the indexers made but they were also generally the first ones to leave for the evening because when there was nothing left to prep and this made them happy, there was no reason for them to be there. same with scanning. Once my job was done, what the Hell was I going to do just sitting around? The Indexers always cried because they were the last to leave and they put in more hours because of it, but it was more hours at a higher pay rate than the rest of us. See where I am going with this? Everything has checks and balances, pros and cons. If the prepper wanted more money they could push to get the indexers job and many did,but if you aim to have that job don’t piss over the greater responsibility that comes with that higher pay grade. LOGIC.

If you have read the entries that made up “The Diary of a Vagabond King” you would know from some of the back and forth exchanges in the comments of some of my posts that I love a good debate and as hard as I will fight to make my point, when outwitted or shown a perspective that I had not thought about prior to I will concede the point. Only a fool does not accept new knowledge when it is presented to them. I don’t have the problem with POSITIVITY. I have the problem with blind devotion to an ideal that would make one judge me for mine when they can not even define their own clearly.

A doctor walks out of an operating room and announces that they have successfully separated conjoined twins. Everybody who hears this claps and talks about how these people’s lives were “saved” with the miracle of modern science and the skills of that doctor….And then one person in the back says That doctor did not save anything, all they did was put an over sized Band-Aid on a boo boo. Well now everyone looks at the person who said that as though they are a diseased exile, even though in the strictest sense this person is right because the concept of “Saving” lives is ridiculous when Death as an inevitability is a universally accepted  fact, even among those who claimed the doctor did just that and “saved” lives. Oh my God that’s just such a negative thing to say, maybe, but it’s TRUE. Now there is one person with a “NEGATIVE” perspective and 30 with the idea that this doctor did what is truly impossible. But among the thirty, one stands up and says. “That’s true, the doctor did not save their lives, what the doctor did was make sure that the two have a chance to live a life with improved quality than they might have had before.” This, the “NEGATIVE” person might agree with because it makes sense. But the other 29 “POSITIVE” people were merely content to judge a view that was not theirs. How POSITIVE is that really?My problem with Care Bears is not in what they believe it is the fact that without even realizing it because they are “POSITIVE” they are essentially TYRANTS with their beliefs.

Some will cry HONESTY, and then preach Manners, as a way to sugar coat the effects of someones actions that are damaging. Yeah How dare I show a lack of sympathy for those who show none themselves towards others and Wave the banner of HONESTY against a LIE that says what they did had no ill effect? How dare I meet ASSUMPTION of my purpose, with ANALYSIS of yours, when in a clash of Judgment against Judgement I aim to be the one who makes the most sense? Often what I find is that when I fire back with LOGIC, the opposing side breaks down into flinging petty insults. I get it. It’s easier to blindly follow an idea than it is to share the burden of being wrong. That is after all what those who oppose me are saying….that I am wrong. It only becomes an issue when I point out how much like me they really are. I extend and promote open forum. I will fight tooth and nail to make my point but when I am wrong I accept that as well, the thing is DON’T TELL ME I’M WRONG, tell me why you believe I am. You might have an effect. Don’t hit me with ASSUMPTIONS and then expect to be offered the RESPECT of an equal, because that is clearly nothing you have SHOWN me. and we get what we give, in all cases, be it HEART, EFFORT, RESPECT, SHIT. If you want me to RESPECT your POINT OF VIEW do not tell me I am WRONG and then be EVASIVE about the points I argue in your response, because that tells me, on some damn level you know I am RIGHT and you just don’t WANT to admit it. One of my favorite comments to a post I wrote long ago was. “YOU’RE AN IDIOT. YOU DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY THAT WE WANT TO HEAR.”…..Really? So you what? Just sought out something for the sake of hearing YOURSELF BITCH ABOUT IT? And you want to call ME an IDIOT, that makes perfect sense. Do not tell me to ACCEPT something and then NOT ACCEPT ME because I won’t, because that means YOU are doing the SAME DAMN THING that YOU  are telling me I am WRONG for doing because being “POSITIVE” does not mean that the PRINCIPLE of what YOU SAY should not apply as much to you as me.  And you what? Have a shiny hat? a magic carpet? Is that what grants you immunity? I don’t buy into my own hype, the hype is just there to get you riled up and expose that the only one really buying into my hype is you. But can you make a REAL argument against me? We all live on this spinning ball of mud and water, the only way we get through that is to either take each other out or get to whatever future there may be together. OPEN YOUR MIND you might be surprised how easy a compromise that keeps things in BALANCE can be made. But have a POINT or else you are just telling me I am wrong while showing me that you haven’t really thought about how it is that you are right, and that tells me that you believe in accordance to the ideas of another you did not question. THAT is WEAKNESS, DO not fault me for having the STRENGTH of my own convictions to justify them with THE REASONS I BELIEVE SO STRONGLY IN THEM. That just makes you JEALOUS.